Mario Sedlak
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Argumente pro und contra ZFC2

Wieso verwenden Mathematiker die Mengenlehre ZFC, obwohl diese Mengenlehre in der zweiten Ordnung (ZFC2) stärker wäre?

Pro ZFC2

Contra ZFC2

Mein Fazit

Obwohl ZFC2 theoretisch stärker ist, kann in der Praxis also im Allgemeinen nur ZFC sinnvoll verwendet werden.

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[1]
[2] englische Wikipedia, Artikel „Skolem’s paradox“, Abschnitt „Reception by the mathematical community“ – „Zermelo argued against the finitary metamathematics that underlie first-order logic“
[3] Kommentar – „ZFC-2 is what we actually ,believe,‘ while ZFC is merely a recursively-ennumerable approximation to (the consequences of) those beliefs. We put up with first-order set theory because we’re interested in founding mathematics on set theory; the moment we want to know what’s actually *true* in the universe of sets ..., we immediately move to second-order set theory.“
[4] Kommentar – „ZFC2 tells us how to define the phrase ,model of set theory‘ correctly, in much the same way that the second-order axioms for the real numbers tell us how to define the phrase ,Dedekind-complete ordered field‘ correctly, in much the same way that the second-order Peano axioms tell us how to define the phrase ,model for arithmetic‘ correctly.“
[5]
  • Kommentar von Joel David Hamkins – „many mathematicians find ZFC2 to be essentially incoherent. How are we to make sense of a second-order model of a theory, except with respect to some background concept of set? But it is the background concept of set we are trying to describe with our theory! So I think that your argument is sensible only to those who believe already that there is a unique absolute background concept of set.“
  • Asaf Karagila im Diskussionsforum StackExchange – „second-order set theory is a philosophically weird creature since second-order logic requires a notion of sets to exists, and at least in modern times we define sets as elements of a universe of set theory.“
  • Noah Schweber auf StackExchange – „standard semantics immediately forces us to make a huge set-theoretic commitment. In particular, what axioms is the assumed ambient universe supposed to satisfy?“
[6] Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, Artikel „Second-order and Higher-order Logic“, Abschnitt „Second-Order Set Theory“ – „Kreisel (1967) has pointed out that second-order set theory in a sense decides the CH, i.e., decides whether it is true or not, even if we do not know which way the decision goes.“
[7] Asaf Karagila auf StackExchange – „we ... seemingly determine things like the truth value of CH (since every model must contain all the reals and sets of reals, so they must agree on the truth value of CH), and so we lose the ability to use forcing as a tool for proving certain statements.“
[8] Halfdan Faber im Diskussionsforum MathOverflow – „First-order logic, with quantification only over sets (the elements of the universe of sets), enjoys Gödel’s completeness theorem, so that every semantically valid sentence has a formal proof, and it supports compactness and Löwenheim-Skolem. These properties give us fine control over models and proofs. Full second-order logic with standard semantics is categorically stronger; its quantifiers range not only over elements but also over all subsets, relations, and functions on the domain. It pins down, for example, the real numbers as the unique complete Archimedean field. But it has no sound and complete deductive system. One cannot hope to mechanize its proof theory in the same way, and many of the model-theoretic tools that make first-order set theory workable are lost. For this reason, the foundational community regards ZFC in first-order logic as the canonical base system, while allowing second-order concepts to play a role externally. ... the logical calculus of first-order logic is complete, not that ZFC itself proves every truth“. (Den letzten Satz habe ich im übersetzten Zitat im ersten Satz in einer Klammer eingefügt.)

Seite erstellt am 7.10.2025 – letzte Änderung am 9.10.2025